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Here is I think a simpler way of looking at this.

Your WW made a choice during 2025 when she decided to initiate, consummate, and then continue a sexual relationship with the AP within the context of their start-up business venture. Her choice has to with the kind of marriage she wants with you. Specifically, she chose to define your marriage -- her chosen variation of it -- as a marriage in which she has the freedom to carry on a highly immersive emotional and sexual relationship with her AP while remaining nominally married to you for the security that the marriage brings. A one-sided open marriage that she secretly declared for herself in 2025, and now openly requests from you. In the choosing, she has definitively told you that she values the emotional and sexual relationship with the AP more than she values a strict monogamous marriage with you.

I would remind you that if you had not discovered the sexual affair a few months ago it would still be going on. Although the physical part may be on pause at present, I think it's safe to assume her desire has not gone away and the only reason sex isn't happening is because she knows you're watching. You are functionally a prophylactic at present. However, sexual desire doesn't go away just because of a thin barrier. I think it's safe to presume that the sexual desire aspect of the relationship is most likely still palpably present.

What she has been telling you, and she has been consistent about this, without wavering, is that this is the version of the marriage and AP relationship that she wants going forward. It's presented to you on a take-it-or-leave it basis. A classic example of a Hobson's Choice.

Your job is to look in the mirror and figure out what sort of marriage you want. I gather from your comments that what you want is a monogamous marriage, one in which you can rely unquestioningly on your wife's commitment to faithful monogamy with you, both emotional and sexual. To be clear, that option is not available to you as long as you remain married to this specific wife.

What is also clear is that not deciding is deciding. This because your WW has already stated and defined her choice, she is actively living her choice, and it's not going to change. Therefore, inaction on your part is tacit acceptance of the one-sided open marriage version of marriage defined by your WW.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 3:37 PM, Thursday, September 17th]

Being persistent:

OM is separated from his wife – i.e. single.
OM and WW have expressed emotions of care. OM is so emotionally attached to WW that she felt a need to "let him down gradually".
WW sooths OM about their relationship still being alive and valid.
OM is persistent in wanting the relationship, despite knowing possible impact on startup.

Based on this – info shared by OP – the OM is invested in this relationship. It’s not just some easy sex.
So now – when everything is in the open – WHY isn’t the OM knocking at your door, insisting his soul-mate be solely his. He can hardly be happy knowing that when they meet again at some conference hotel that he’s sharing his woman with her antagonist who is holding her back from their eternal happiness. Or he can’t be fine with viewing his cofounder as casual sex, knowing he’s at the same time risking the major investment that might be his key to financial gains.
Keep in mind the WW initiated talk about separation and has shared that with friends, so it’s not only a thought, but something she intended to follow up with.

Something is not adding up…

Without any more info and assuming what we know is correct, then the most dangerous idea is that they both accept a period of status-quo while the startup is moved into some financial, unreachable safety-zone before the inevitable divorce.

Your marriage has been attacked by twin betrayals. The first betrayal is your wife's absolute dedication to her career. This carries with it pain and loneliness for the spouse but most cultures encourage acceptance because material success is so valued and lauded far above the quiet life of dedication to your family and partner. I worked in Manhattan for some time and have consulted with many senior leaders during my career. The dedication to career in high performing people is common and rationalization that they are doing it for their families is, I believe, common too.

Most people have some longing for a job or career that is satisfying, engaging and enjoyable so it doesn't seem terrible on the surface to strive for it. But what are we willing to sacrifice to get it, to keep it? Time and connection to spouse and kids is the tradeoff for money, esteem and engagement in a demanding career.

Then the long hours with colleagues combined with the stimulating, challenging work sets up the affair dynamic. Not for everyone of course. It also takes someone who has something broken, something weakened in them but that work environment almost automatically puts you on the slippery slope no matter who you are. It requires proactive defensive behavior to avoid temptation.

I can almost empathize with your wife because she has given in completely to two powerful drugs, pun intended. Giving up both for the quieter life, the normal career, must look daunting, impossible, from her eyes. I think she may still love you as she says, it's certainly possible. But she is addicted to the setting she is in and society tells her that she is pursuing what everyone dreams of, what she deserves. But she has forgotten the quiet, romantic dream you shared when you married.

Thanks to everyone who replied to this. I've been coming back to the thread many times over the past few weeks as I realize that I'm still trying to stabilize now 4 months after D-day.

In fact, I just spent nearly two weeks back in the US alone to get physical/emotional/psychological distance. Best decision I've made since D-Day. I've kept communications with my WW to a minimum -- which she's struggled with -- and I've been focusing solely on me. Being back with my family and old friends, who all know the complete story, have helped me ground myself and recenter. I've slept better and gained back some of the weight that I'd lost. And maybe I've found some additional clarity?

Two things I've been working on while I've been gone.

First, I've already noted above the fawn response. Over-apologize, can't state a need, soften everything to protect the other person, then blow up when it's built up too long. @hikingout, you totally called it when you spotted that the woman who's been married to me 18 years isn't seeing the danger on the horizon. She's never once had to sit in the mess she's made without me tidying up a bit. I think my trip has really knocked a bit of sense into her. Being home, alone with the kids, trying to juggle all of the responsibilities, all while I'm off the radar. She's sent quite a few messages expressing a new depth of sorrow. And which I've mostly responded to with some iteration of "Good morning! I'm still alive!" She's also given me unprompted written accountability ("it was an awful thing to do"), wondering if I'll ever be able to forgive her...

Second, and maybe the bigger point, I'd been so locked on NC as the issue that I'd rug-swept the affair itself. A nine-month EA and PA with her business partner. Who the hell is this woman? And what am I even trying to save at this point? I still think I love her -- though I'm not even sure I know what love is anymore; maybe I don't even know who she is anymore -- and maybe part of me is holding on for the children. I don't know. I just keep spinning my wheels on which is worse and which is forgivable and which needs my most urgent attention: the affair prior to D-day, or her ongoing behavior.

To be fair to her, I have seen some positive movement on her side. Just before I left, she compressed what could have been an overnight into a same-day trip specifically to spare me, had started reading about what betrayal does to a BS, and allowed me to vent, sitting in my pain without defending herself. I see the remorse, but there's still a lot of work to be done...

Overall, my anxiety has mostly settled and I'm feeling a lot better after a few weeks away from the situation, but today I fly home. Given I've been mostly disconnected, I'm eager to see what my WW brings to the table when we reconnect.

So, a few replies:

@BackfromtheStorm: you said zero truly reformed waywards could tolerate even bumping into their AP on the street. Well, if this is true, my WW is definitely not reformed. I don't even know if she'll ever get there. That also gets to @Stevesn's and @GotTheMorbs point that she needs to see AP as a threat to the marriage, or someone they dread to see. I've mentioned this with her, even calling my WW and her AP collaborators in breaking my heart, but I don't think she's internalized that.

@NotMyIdentity: would I regret walking away with doubts still live? Yes. That's the honest answer and it's probably why I'm still here. You also asked whether NC is a firm boundary for me, and told me to set a deadline and decide what I need to see by a specific point. It's a great point and the same thing my therapist has been telling me.

@Letmebefrank: her plan for the next road show/meeting with AP? There isn't one. And your point about the award ceremony is the one I can't get past: every win she has is tied to him. Under these current conditions, it's just triggers for the foreseeable future.

@Butforthegrace: I really appreciate your framing of her having defined this marriage back in 2025. I've taken it more as: she destroyed the marriage in 2025, and now I'm trying to determine whether I want to build something new with this person. But if I run the thought experiment that I'm just meeting her for the first time, would I ever want to kick off a relationship with a woman who may or may not be in a relationship with her business partner, but definitely has had that relationship in the past?

@5Decades: I don't see any real buy-out opportunity. It's a biotech company and he's the guy with the patents, running the laboratory & R&D side while she's managing the business development aspects. This kind of gets at @Letmebefrank's point about this business having massive key-man risk.

@Bigger: just one clarifying point about my WW talking about separation with her friends -- at that time, she'd misinterpreted something I said as me having made a firm decision to separate. I wasn't actually there yet, and it wasn't her idea. Regarding why OM isn't knocking down the door to get her, I'd buy into the idea that he's in a holding pattern. She's claiming she wants to work on the marriage, and maybe he'll respect that, but as long as he's still around, he's still a threat. Hell, maybe this past week, while I've been off the grid, he's been whispering venom in her ear about how this is a sign that I don't care for her. Again, probably another data point in favor of essential NC.

Thanks again for all the effort and thought everyone's put into this.

I still think I love her -- though I'm not even sure I know what love is anymore; maybe I don't even know who she is anymore -- and maybe part of me is holding on for the children. I don't know.

This is a common emotional puzzle among BH's. Let me submit that you don't actually love your wife. Rather, you love an avatar, an imaginary version of who you think your wife could be "if only." That you don't actually grok the flesh-and-blood real life human who lives in your home with you. It's a species of what we call "hopium," the most widely abused drug of betrayed men.

I just keep spinning my wheels on which is worse and which is forgivable and which needs my most urgent attention: the affair prior to D-day, or her ongoing behavior.

My friend, it's a package. Often referred to on these sites as the "shit sandwich."

You use the term "forgivable," but have you actually considered what "forgive" means? There are some crazy long threads about this. I believe that the most widely accepted definition is that "forgiveness" is the end of a desire for revenge or retribution. Under that definition, it is possible to forgive, but also to end the marriage and move on. They aren't mutually exclusive.

"Forgive" definitely does not mean "stiff upper lip it, choke down the shit sandwich, and force myself to remain nominally married with hope that over time the pain will gradually diminish."

I've taken it more as: she destroyed the marriage in 2025, and now I'm trying to determine whether I want to build something new with this person.

That view doesn't align with the facts as you've posted them. She has very clearly re-defined her half of the marriage as an open marriage. She is not taking steps to end the marriage, nor is she taking steps to end contact with the AP. She could not state more plainly that this version of the marriage you are living right now is the version that's on offer to you. Nothing else. There is nothing "new" to build with her because she is not offering this. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

But if I run the thought experiment that I'm just meeting her for the first time, would I ever want to kick off a relationship with a woman who may or may not be in a relationship with her business partner, but definitely has had that relationship in the past?

That's a useful thought experiment, but you understate the necessary factual input: "Would I ever want to kick off a relationship with a woman who was just recently caught out cheating on her husband of many years with her business partner, and who is still actively engaged in a highly immersive relationship with that same affair partner/business partner?"

Nobody would do that. Way too messy. Instead, you'd tell her that you're going your separate way, you'll date others and see where that leads. In the meantime, if she wants to clean up her house, get her priorities straight, and then, after all that is sorted, seek you out, you'll be open to at least talking to her depending on whether you've found a new relationship.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:17 PM, Wednesday, September 30th]

I do not agree with butforthegrace on loving an avatar.

I think you probably do love your wife for many other aspects of who she is, but now she has introduced a part of herself that is in need of her to take action on regardless of what you do with the marriage. I do not think she is an avatar because you don’t spend 18 years of marriage not knowing someone. You can however spend 18 years of marriage not knowing ALL of someone. Or things can change over time and not have it be recognized.

And besides infidelity doesn’t necessarily call into question if a bs loved the ws, it calls into question the other way around. I don’t think you have to call into question if you love her. What is called into question is if you want to stay married to her.

And the clarity I see you forming is right- do you want to rebuild with who she is now? And your answer is right-

No. She is not safe right now.

What you are recognizing is that it’s taken you four months to realize you needed to stabilize. That stability puts you back in your power and allows you to move forward more objectively. It also gives you an understanding that you both may need some time to stabilize. I consider the first six months to a year nothing but recovery.

However, recovery under the umbrella of togetherness can only happen if the affair is over and the ap is completely out of your life. It’s not negotiable that she needs to leave the company and go full NC before I would even consider allowing the recovery period to happen together. Together to me means you aren’t committing to any path for the relationship but are taking time to continue to stabilize on both sides. This is only an option if she willingly comes forward and says "I choose you above all this other stuff, I am going to take the career hit and go NC because you are the most important person in my life and I am going to do what I need to do to align myself with what I want, which is this marriage."

That’s for starters. She does that and you want to wait and see, great. She doesn’t, then recovery has to happen separately. You do not continue to live with her and allow yourself to be subjected to what would appear to always be an ongoing affair.

I wouldn’t commit to reconciliation until you do think you are looking at a different person. But I agree that’s going to take some time. The answer if she chooses the marriage and you want to give her that time is "seeing how you have shown me that you are really willing to work on this, I will give you some time to work on yourself, and I am going to work on myself. If there comes a point in time it seems tenable we can then start working on our marriage more fully. I am not sure if I am trying to reconcile or divorce but I am willing to delay getting on a specific path as long as you show you are committed to working on yourself"

(Or the answer can be I would like a divorce no matter what she does moving forward. I am just trying to give you different options)

I like the way you sound after being home and in your support system. You have started some work that I think will serve you well no matter the outcome of this marriage. The clarity over that will come, just keep focusing on yourself and what you need and want.

If later you do choose reconciliation, that too is a big process. So it doesn’t end with "okay you have worked on yourself I will stay married to you." Some of it happens during her recovery—she starts building trust, she starts showing you consistency and love and her earnest desire to fix the marriage. But the biggest chunk happens after you have reached that point. It’s a big commitment to a lot of communication and rebuilding.

Also forgiveness is not required for reconciliation. For us it was more like we have accepted what has happened, we accept the solution. We don’t forgive or condone the behavior but we do have goodwill and are moving forward in the present. Forgiveness is complicated, on that butforthegrace is right, but it’s not insurmountable if there is a restoration of love and trust.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:30 PM, Wednesday, September 30th]

You can however spend 18 years of marriage not knowing ALL of someone. Or things can change over time and not have it be recognized.

Everybody changes over time. Every long-term married couple who I know, or who has been interviewed, tells you that marriages remain intact because the spouses recognize this and periodically cycle into re-inventing the marriage to address the new people the spouse have morphed into. Over 18 years, this process can re-vivify a marriage, or a spouse can gradually morph into somebody new without the other spouse being privy to the changes. It's incumbent on spouses to talk about these changes, to fill the other spouse in on where they are headed.

Here, Soon2B's wife decided to enter into an immersive, intimate relationship with another man for the purpose of chasing a dream, and in the process, she later decided to extend the intimacy and immersion into a sexual relationship that would still be going on had Soon2B not discovered it. In a very real sense, at present Soon2B is a prophylactic between his wife, whom I submit he does not know at present, and the object of her actual, present desire.

What Soon2B wishes his wife would do is abandon her relationship with the AB, full no-contact, and reinvest herself into the marriage. She has made it crystal clear through her actions that she chooses not to do that.

Perhaps the useful distinction here is between having love for a person and being in love with a person. It is natural and normal that long-term companions who have worked together to accomplish things like child rearing have love for one another. Heck, I have love for a few long-time band mates. Being in a band is itself a species of intimacy.

But being "in love" with a person necessitates knowing them. I stick to my initial thesis that the person Soon2B is "in love" with is an avatar, not the real flesh-and-blood human occupying his home. As Soon2B himself says, part of his current calculus is trying to figure out whether he would actually want to initiate a relationship with that real flesh-and-blood human knowing the monstrous choices she has very recently been making.

My focus here is really on the idea that what we resist persists. I think struggling with whether he loves her, is in love with her, or ever really knew her just creates another layer of turmoil when he's already trying to find his footing. None of those things can be objectively determined by anyone here, and I don't think he needs to resolve them to move forward.

It's okay if he loves her. It's okay if he doesn't. It's okay if he isn't sure anymore. What matters right now is dealing with the reality of what is happening rather than struggling to reconcile it with what he feels.

Something I see here quite often is that we can inadvertently put betrayed spouses in the position of defending their wayward spouses when our descriptions don't align with their lived experiences. It's a bit like complaining about your sister. You might have plenty to say about her yourself, but when someone else starts in on her, you find yourself feeling protective.

Telling someone they've been married to an avatar for 18 years discounts a great deal of their experience. There are likely many things he genuinely loves about his wife that have nothing to do with fidelity. Discovering this part of her doesn't mean everything else he knew about her was imaginary. It means he now has some very painful new information that he has to integrate into his understanding of her and their marriage.

And none of that changes the reality of his situation.

She is still working with her affair partner, and she hasn't taken the steps necessary to make herself a safe partner. I've been very clear that I don't think he can recover alongside her under those conditions.

But he can recognize all of that and still love her. He may ultimately need to leave her while still loving her.

I would rather see him focus on the clarity he's beginning to gain about what he needs and what he's willing to accept than get caught up in another struggle over whether his feelings are based on reality.

Hiking:

Your points are very well taken, and I do agree that injecting confusion is probably not helpful.

However, one thing I notice over and over in these threads, and at the risk of sounding like I'm making gender-based generalizations, more often from betrayed men, is a recital of "I still love her" or "I'm still in love with her" or some version of it. We see/hear this after learning that she has made even the most monstrous of choices. The natural response of a third party is, "Do you really love her, who she truly is, or do you love the imagination/fantasy of her, the person you wish she could be?"

Soon2B is gloming onto this concept. "Do I want to build a relationship with this person?" That statement shows us that he is realizing the wife he is actually married to is somebody whom he does not even recognize at present.

I'm reminded of the many instances we have seen in this modern era of catfishing or lonely hearts scams. Men falling "in love" with a fantasy of a woman who isn't even a real physical human existing in real life. Just a fictional character created by saccharine words conveyed online. Men can be like that. Strongly self-deluded into believing we love a person or thing even without knowing the person or thing.

I get what you are saying.

That’s why I affirmed she isn’t a candidate for reconciliation right now. No one reconciles with the person who just cheated on them. It’s impossible.

You reconcile with someone who has spent a significant amount of effort and time working on themselves. I think we agree that unless she says I am leaving my job and choosing this marriage it’s a nonstarter.

At that point, it’s still not time to reconcile, it’s a wait and see and maybe get in that path later, maybe not.

So in essence we agree but I just don’t think we know if he loves her or knows her. I think my husband was in love with me at the time of my affair, and had a a pretty good idea of who I was. It was me who had lost track of all that. But none of that dictated his actions and it shouldn’t.

I will point out when the fear in this woman kicked in was when she finally understood he was going to stand up for himself and she was at a true risk of losing him. That often can light a fire under someone when slapped with reality.

I never suggest that as a manipulative tactic, but when it happens organically for the bs it does help with clarity, objectiviteoy and feeling they have some semblance of control over their life again. I can see he is getting in a better place and that’s so important.

IMO you are spinning your wheels, letting your mind think about some abstract problems like affair vs. no NC, what is more forgivable, while not giving thought to the most practical aspect of your current situation. It will eat you alive, melt you over the years like acid, grind you down like a sandstorm. After you are traumatized into numbness, AP will truly shine in comparison. I hate writing it BTW, sorry.

In fact, I just spent nearly two weeks back in the US alone to get physical/emotional/psychological distance. Best decision I've made since D-Day. I've kept communications with my WW to a minimum

Separation for a BS is so imperative in these situations. Glad you took this opportunity, Soon2B.

Who the hell is this woman? And what am I even trying to save at this point?

A person that intentionally and consciously inflicted more pain on you than anyone else you've ever come across in your life so far, Soon2B.

I recall from your thread in JFO, I asked you if your WW understood that she would be taking on the role of being the villain in your children's eyes who caused the family's break up, you replied on August 14th:

Yes, my wife knows what's coming wrt the kids. They will be heartbroken to learn of our separation, and they will quickly understand the 'why', as I have no intention of lying to them. It definitely breaks her to be the villain, but her identity as a hot-shot, up-and-coming, steward of a cutting-edge biotech startup values more to her. Her ambition outweighs anything else right now, damn the consequences. #HappyToBeGettingOut

While I might be able to entertain or stomach the notion of 'affair fog' or 'limerence' by a wayward in regards to the betrayed individual, I have an incredibly hard time coming to terms with any parent, mother or father, taking such actions, knowing how those actions will affect young children. We all know that cheating is an act of abuse against the betrayed. Her cheating and her willingness to place her career ambitions above even the well-being of her children constitute, granted maybe not intentional, but at least reckless or negligent abuse against your children.

Think long and hard on just what you are attempting to fight for.

S2B,

I believe the worst forms of Infidelity to recover from are those involving Young Love Reunited and Twin Flames.

Your situation is closely mirroring a Twin Flame. It's often said here to Survive Infidelity you have to get out of Infidelity. With a Twin Flame there is an Emotional and Physical Infidelity. I'm not sure your wife will give any of either of them up.

S2B get out of Infidelity.

Peace

I think the twin flame thing is a myth and I would t be surprised if it was invented to help cheating people justify their affair and continuing to be limerant.

I subscribed to some of that when I was in the midst of withdrawal. I couldn’t fathom I had done all of this for nothing, and read about twin flames and started down the path of believing it.

It’s convenient because there is a runner and a chaser, and this whole story about a soul contract that was created before we incarnate on the earth saying that we will meet at this point to wake each other up. Then we will be torn apart and have to do all this work on ourselves so we can be reunited.

And even writing that right now reminds me how batshit crazy it all is and was. It’s definitely something that somebody who cheated made up.

However, the other one - the reunited - I think sometimes that’s powerful because you think you can’t project things on them because you know them don’t must be love, right?

But that’s just as crazy, often in these cases it’s someone middle aged that dates the person in high school or college, and that makes them a stranger again with baggage that can’t be imagined.

I am not trying to be combative but I just think true love is not usually what an affair produces.and to me just because they get married or stay together for some time after doesn’t make it that either. I think k 97 percent of the time, if they stay together it’s because they have a narrative that they are a good person and that they wouldn’t have left their family for someone that wasn’t meant to be or some bullshit. Most divorce quickly. I do know a few that stayed together long term but I think it’s just a fluke—either they are able to continue the narrative or they did grow from all of what happened and found a way to authentic love.

That’s a rarity because affairs aren’t love—-you don’t love someone and help them destroy other people, including themselves in the process. Love isn’t formed on a pack of lies and deception. God doesn’t send you someone else’s spouse and proclaim them as your soul mate.

It’s just all bullshit—but you are right those two narratives are powerful to people who are in an affair because it legitimizes something not legitimate.

I like the advice and comments you are getting.

And I agree I'm glad you have afforded yourself the time away to get perspective and understanding of your situation, who you are and who your wife is.

What I would wish for you, and hope I would do if in your situation, is to realize that unless your wayward spouse is truly taking the lead and making real steps to repair what she destroyed, especially after all these months, then she will never be a candidate for rebuilding a relationship with you.

You understandably still love her. You never stopped. And maybe she does love you too. But so often here I am moved to say that in a marriage, love is not enough. It takes "love and". And your wife lost the "and". And the same is true for reconciliation. It take even more. So much more than love. And most of that responsibility falls on the wayward partner.

From what you describe she's doing basically none of that.

And the sad truth is, even if she did everything right after DDay, which understandably few do, and she checked all the boxes...

- showed shock and despair over what she had done
- Absolute concern over how she had hurt you
- Immediately stopped going to work, took a leave of absence to figure out the financials and finances of her removing herself from the company
- Immediately finding and starting with a therapist who is an infidelity specialist
- Offering to pay for trauma therapy for you
- Researching, Writing and presenting a detailed plan to repair and rebuild and help you heal
- Working diligently in that therapy to remove her AP from her heart mind body and soul
- Constantly Reading and studying resources available to her on how to help you heal and rebuild after an affair
- Absolute NC with her AP even if it affects business while she works to leave it
- Push a plan to leave the business and execute it
- Show concern and express desire to assist your children through this difficult time
- Provide intimacy on your terms
- Provide a detailed timeline of her cheating

And There is so much more than that which she needs to do and proactively provide.

But even if she were doing all of that, because of the nature of her infidelity and destruction of trust, the chances would still be against your marriage surviving more than 2-5 years.

I'm sorry but that is just the nature of infidelity.

And of course your wife is doing little, if not any of those things.

Your nature understandably is to try to cajole, hope that she will hear what you say and make it a reality.

But the cold honest truth is you can't do it for her. She has got to want it enough that she proactively makes it happen. And that's a rare WP who can actually do that and do it well.

So that is why I may have said to you before, that if u are the one who is constantly pushing her, explaining to her, and in some sense forcing her to take these steps, in the end all you will have accomplished is to not reconcile with her, but only with yourself. And over the years that will become a very lonely feeling.

There is a fellow who showed up here a few years ago who found out after about 10 years married, his wife had cheated before they were even engaged. It truly hit him so hard that it nearly destroyed him and their family. His wife had some false starts in doing the work to rebuild and over the years still faltered at times, but for the most part she really took the initiative and led the rebuilding process.

As far as I know they are still together, but even so, even tho it happened before they were engaged and even tho she did mostly everything right, he still today has moments of crisis and uncertainty even 7-8 years since DDay. So you can see how impossibly hard this can be even under the best of conditions.

So in reading your latest and with the background I've droned on about above I want to reiterate that it's probably the best path to actually start making progress on the legal side of infidelity and meet with the lawyers and start getting papers drawn up.

This in no way means or implied that you are giving up. Quite honestly I truly believe that after an extended affair, that it's best for a couple to begin the legalities even if both parties hope to some day build something new, perhaps different, but new in the future.

So many come here saying "well I want to give my marriage and family a chance". And that's an understandable emotion and desire. But the ironic truth is that you actually may have a better chance of repairing and building a life together if the BS actually takes the steps to seek representation and filing for divorce.

It shows the WS that what they seriously have done to hurt and damage their partner and relationship and forces themselves to take a hard look at themselves. To me, a truly remorseful WS would actually want that for their partner. Not the pain and anguish the process inflicts, but the security of knowing that if they cannot make it work, that the steps required to end it as quickly as possible, with reasonable if not beneficial terms that they don't have to wait months or years for.

Of course if the process turns antagonistic then you know that the WS was never all in for you and you'll someday be better off with out them.

So please consider it. I'd urge one more conversation when you return and then don't linger on it with constant talking.

To model what I'd say, it would be something like:

"after months it's clear that while you may regret the pain it has caused you don't actually regret the relationship you had with this man. And that our marriage is not more important to you than him and your work with him. I can't live a life or in a marriage like that.

If you did prioritize my feelings, our family and our relationship, you would be actively taking steps to learn how to truly repair all that your choice of cheating has destroyed.

Because of that I am moving on until not only do I see you starting to take those steps but actually complete them, including ending your relationship completely with this man. Removing him from our lives forever and to remove him from your heart and mind and body and soul; and to show me I am truly the man you want as both your romantic and heartfelt partner for the rest of your life.

You broke your vows. I can't do the work to repair that for you. So I think it's best that I take the steps to legally end the marriage your infidelity has for all purposes destroyed.

I'm committed to be the best coparent I can be. But this all has broken my heart, and if you are not going to be part of the process to repair it then I need to go on my own to heal it.

From here on out I think it's best that we only discuss the kids and finances. I really have nothing else to say about it. You've shown me your choice through your actions and I'm no longer willing to stick around on a hope and a prayer.

I wish you well in finding the happiness you are looking for. I need to now go find mine"

Then no need to discuss any further. I know this is all so hard to absorb. But even if she truly wants what you want her to want, it will take years, not days weeks or months to make it happen. I hope she does. But that does not preclude you taking the steps to move on until it does. If she's gonna do it she's gonna do it whether or not the divorce process is in progress.

And this will set you up for finding happiness some day no matter which path she takes. Please consider that.

I again wish you well on your journey and the difficult decisions you have in front of you.

To be fair to her, I have seen some positive movement on her side. Just before I left, she compressed what could have been an overnight into a same-day trip specifically to spare me, had started reading about what betrayal does to a BS, and allowed me to vent, sitting in my pain without defending herself. I see the remorse, but there's still a lot of work to be done...

As Stevens's post pointed out, this is the absolute bare minimum and there's a hell of a lot more that she should be doing if she's going to demonstrate her remorse and commitment. But she's not going to do those things because her priority is, first and foremost, her business.

My concern is that she's going to give you crumbs and hope that you'll be content with that. I think she's still thinking that she can negotiate her way out of this.

I see two entirely different feelings from your WW and the AP. She is having an affair with her job. It’s exciting. It’s new. Every day is a thrill. The AP is having an affair with your wife. It sounds like he is not going anywhere with his devotion. I can see your wife’s dilemma. She has painted herself into a corner. Step one way and the business is what she chooses. Step the other and she chooses you. I don’t think she is going to choose you. Her excitement over the business trumps everything else. She can waffle some but you need to be realistic. Would Gates or Jobs have let go?

Back on here to say he has the patents. He can get anyone experienced to do what she does. She knows this. I can’t see her letting this opportunity go. For your sake I hope I am wrong.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 10:50 PM, Thursday, October 1st]